tzone

la_glitch · Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 434

within lesbians there are many different groups, subcultures, politics and experiences. same goes for people within the spectrum of homosexual male. same for bisexuals. same for trans-people.

i think that TS people are already fully and adequately categorised within the general T* sub-heading. i can't really understand why there needs to be such a sea-change concerning deliniation of lines. if the intention was to simply reclassify transsexualism as HBS then, well, i couldn't care one way or the other. but it is the politics that are inherent within the movement that proposes to do that, which i'm aware of even though i can't be fussed to provide links or analytical breakdowns.

scame, the netherlands study was intresting, but flawed. low sample size and a high degree of variation between the groups plauged it, even though the result *was* statistically different. however, there is nothing to say that the result would remain so markedly different if the sample size was increased. stats are funny things. additionally, those trannsexuals who would have previously been classified as 'secondary' had, i seem to remember, even femaler brain structures than those previously classified as 'primary' or the natal females put together. there were also cis-men with transsexual sized brain structures, and classic TS women with cis-male sized brain structures. it's muddy. still, like cheekycat says, wait and see.

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"Throw yourself in the road darlings! You haven't got a chance!" - Withnail

la_glitch · Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 434

..........oops...............

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"Throw yourself in the road darlings! You haven't got a chance!" - Withnail

Squigglefish · Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 218

CheekyCat wrote:

We can more or less rule out this possibility with what we know at present.

As a transsexual syndrome the contributing factors will be mult-variable, including biological, psychological and sociological. I've posted extensively about such bio-psyco-social factors in the past.

Even with-in biological factors, strands of research relating to neuro-anatomical structures, genetic inheritance, in-uterus environment etc have all been identified as possible markers for GID.

I'm skimming through the thread now, but I don't intend to really make many more replies, however I did want to comment on this...

Thank you!
It's rare to see the acceptance of multiple contributing factors, and very good to see that this is being acknowledged Smile

Megan · Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 192 Location: Northampton

Squigglefish wrote:

[

- must be deep stealth, have no contact with anyone from before transition (including family)

So, to qualify for this so called HBS I'd have to cease contact with my partner, all my friends and my family who have been tremendously supportive and allowed me to to live a life almost identical to how it was before I left the closet. What rot! Hardly a recipe for a happy life which is the aim for everyone.

I stopped posting here, but still pop round for a read every now and then. This and other threads that have cropped up lately are preciesly the reason I stopped. Certain elements of this community are missing the point, they're are too busy fighting over labels and some sort of ridiculous heirarchy to do anything constructive. Who cares whether someone is TS, TV, Genderqueer or anything they want, all that matters is that they are not hurting anyone else and that they are free to be whoever they are at heart. We are all a part of a community that suffers amongst the poorest respect and parity with general society hardly a surprise when many of us can't even show respect to people in similar circumstances.

We should be here helping and supporting each other, I've seen at least one genuine call for help and support blighted by bickering in the recent posts. We should also be working together to gain acceptance and respect from the world at large. None of this can happen whilst we persist with this stupid in-fighting. Everyone should put their claws away and concentrate on doing some good in their own lives or other peoples.

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I never look back darling. It distracts from the now

CheekyCat · Joined: 20 Aug 2007 Posts: 458 Location: UK

Squigglefish wrote:

CheekyCat wrote:

We can more or less rule out this possibility with what we know at present.

As a transsexual syndrome the contributing factors will be mult-variable, including biological, psychological and sociological. I've posted extensively about such bio-psyco-social factors in the past.

Even with-in biological factors, strands of research relating to neuro-anatomical structures, genetic inheritance, in-uterus environment etc have all been identified as possible markers for GID.

I'm skimming through the thread now, but I don't intend to really make many more replies, however I did want to comment on this...

Thank you!
It's rare to see the acceptance of multiple contributing factors, and very good to see that this is being acknowledged Smile

That has always been my position and i have posted extensively on Bio-Psych-social aetiology of GID on this forum. Including many "debates" with the political faction who tie themselves in an intellectual straightjacket by their love of social constructionist models.

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Cheeky Cat!

CheekyCat · Joined: 20 Aug 2007 Posts: 458 Location: UK

Megan wrote:

Squigglefish wrote:

[

- must be deep stealth, have no contact with anyone from before transition (including family)

So, to qualify for this so called HBS I'd have to cease contact with my partner, all my friends and my family who have been tremendously supportive and allowed me to to live a life almost identical to how it was before I left the closet. What rot! Hardly a recipe for a happy life which is the aim for everyone.

Nope...that is a blatant misrepresentation

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Cheeky Cat!

CheekyCat · Joined: 20 Aug 2007 Posts: 458 Location: UK

Stella Maru wrote:

Scaeme wrote:

*tempts Stella's uber brain for more information*

Of course I will share with you what I know, Rachel, which is not a great deal, and is by no means conclusive, but I shall not to do so here, as I have decided not to engage further with vexatious posters , as I am sure you will understand.

Well thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster for that!

It's become very tiresome having to correct your often amateurish and incorrect analysis of some of the research papers that you present.

Sometimes a very little knowledge is dangerous in the wrong hands.

Wink

ps You've still to provide your proof Re: the level of gender dysphoria in the TV/CD population. Hope you are not gonna slink off without providing that first?

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Cheeky Cat!

Scaeme · Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject:

oh please dont start with that too Cheekycat. You know full well that Stella's knowledge on this stuff is always backed up.

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I look back at most of my life and think "WHAT THE HELL WAS I THINKING?!??"

CheekyCat · Joined: 20 Aug 2007 Posts: 458 Location: UK

Scaeme wrote:

oh please dont start with that too Cheekycat. You know full well that Stella's knowledge on this stuff is always backed up.

Rachel, I can understand why many people with little knowledge of scientific methodology or analysis may be hoodwinked.

However, I have in the past had to point out a number of basic errors in analysis never mind the more contentious matter of interpretation.

And her latest contentions re Gender dysphoria in CD/TV have been backed up by precisely zilch. (Although i have a fair idea of which papers she may raise if she is brave enough Wink

)

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Cheeky Cat!

Anonymous · Guest

opossum wrote:

My interpretation of your post is that you want an special 'HBS' category exclusively for TS people. Why?

Many groups do exist. They are not so blinkered that they exclude the views of others. I am lucky so far in not encountering any prejudice, despite been full-time and not passing 100%. I believe that the people who would discriminate against TS people are usually equally biased against the whole LBGT issue. It is unlikely that education unique to one group would alleviate that prejudice against any of them.

In your original post launching this topic you state that you disagree with 'the idea of removing gender binaries', but surely it is commonly accepted that there is a spectrum of gender identity rather than a binary division into one or the other. It is merely society that pigeon-holes people into two groups whatever the reality.

Its not generally accepted that gender binaries dont exisit in fact the opposite.

la_glitch · Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 434

this always makes me think of The Myth Of Mars And Venus.

as an aside, i quickly gave my cis-friend an update on this whole argument and she sat there, looked perplexed, and just said, 'but....... does it *matter*?'.

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"Throw yourself in the road darlings! You haven't got a chance!" - Withnail

Scaeme · Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:41 pm Post subject:

My thoughts exactly. Why should it matter if somebody wants to wear boots like these:

They might not be my own personal taste, but I'm sure even somebody who was firmly cornfirmed of a fully ts/hbs idenity would not be jeapordising this for wearing such a knicky little number.

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I look back at most of my life and think "WHAT THE HELL WAS I THINKING?!??"

Anonymous · Guest

your point?

la_glitch · Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 434

sheesh. my ankles are screaming just looking at those heels Shocked

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"Throw yourself in the road darlings! You haven't got a chance!" - Withnail

Scaeme · Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject:

So what if somebody likes to wear kinky clothes. They shouldnt be discriminated against for it and we offer such people every ounce of support we have to offer. Smile

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I look back at most of my life and think "WHAT THE HELL WAS I THINKING?!??"