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Cheeky Cat!

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Cheeky Cat!

First, a trans person's private past might affect both their and their spouse's mutual present and future.
It's not something that had gone once and forever. It's something you have and always will have to live with.

How would a trans person expain that he/she is not able to have children? Not in the most expected way, at least. Mumbling something about "infertility running in my family" or enthusiastically proposing "let's do it in vitro, I'm sure you'll like it!"?

How would he/she explains regular injections of hormones?

Memories of childhood, pictures, relatives, friends, - anything that has any bearing to the past should be eliminated, muted or gotten under strict control. Would you feel relaxed and comfortable if you had to constantly control yourself?

Second, the body. As it has been already said here, most transguys do not have penises. How would you explain it to the girl?
I'm sure transgirls have their problems with body, too.

Third, something about what you seem to be in blissful ignorance.

There are people who do not accept trans! Horrible, I know, but it happens. Very very seldom, extremely seldom, but happens. Somewhere. Sometimes. Once in a blue moon.
It's not like they are active in this dislike. They simply do not accept trans in their true gender. For those people only biological gender exists and a guy of this sort would rather date an obese girl from the worst of your nightmares than the most stunning transgirl.

Yes, it's fine and great when people accept people for what they are (and I am blessed to have a girlfriend of that kind) but it doesn't happen every single case.
A random straight person, by default, expects to date a person of the opposite gender. Who was born and raised up as such. Simply because for most people TG stuff is something they do not experience in their every day life.

Same as a random person expects to have a healthy partner.
Should a diabetics confess to his lover that he is a diabetics? Or should he brush this fact aside as something personal that has nothing to do with his potential long-term partner?

Fourth. Revealing your past would show your respect and trust to the person you love.

Fifth. For your own comfort. There is always a chance that sooner or later your partner will know about you. A break up that could follow is not always caused by your partner being a horrible transphobe. Quite often it is caused wioth your partner's hurt feelings. When your secret is revealed (and especially if not by you) she/he will see it as a deceit. Not because you hid your bio gender. But because you hid it from her.

P.S. Comparing it with hair colour or used-to-be-obese really doesn't make sense.

lol no idea but not something I need to find out anyway

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I have to EDIT because I can't SPELL!!

Looking at it from the other side, I totally agree with Juz's post, especially the fifth reason. I wouldn't say you're deceiving her though, but I think it could turn into deception if it goes on too long.

Flameboy wrote:

Well, yes and no I guess. Following phalloplasty, if the operations are successful, a transguy can have an erection by pumping up the penis.

All that assumes 'being intimate' means penetration with a penis. I think we all ought to know that sex isn't quite so 'straight'forward as that!

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Sorry Juz, I simply don't agree with the majority of the points that you make.

I've gone into my reasons in quite a lot of detail (I can often get into the groove when writing and it it really pours out........i've managed to do loads of work today so i'm just going with the flow while it lasts )
Anyway, these are responses to the general issues that you raise, rather than merely trying to criticise your views or indeed your right to hold them! I'm sure sure a lot of people won't agree with my views......but c'est la vie!

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How would a trans person expain that he/she is not able to have children? Not in the most expected way, at least. Mumbling something about "infertility running in my family" or enthusiastically proposing "let's do it in vitro, I'm sure you'll like it!"? How would he/she explains regular injections of hormones?

Why would you need to explain it? I'd tell someone that i don't want to have children........what more is there to explain? There are loads of couples who don't want to have kids and it's got nothing to be with being trans. In effect it's a non-issue! Likewise with hormone injections or in my case taking oral hormones.........why would you need to explain it......it's not your partner who is going to do the injections! It's another non-issue!

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Second, the body. As it has been already said here, most transguys do not have penises. How would you explain it to the girl? I'm sure transgirls have their problems with body, too.

As a transgirl I'm hoping I won't need to explain my lack of penis!
I said in my original post that getting intimate with someone would be a major consideration in disclosing your past and would depend on the stage of physical transition. But as Dave has explained there are surgical techniques available and many genetic men who also use penile inserts. And I know from my personal experience it's possible for a transgirl to be intimate with a partner without disclosing their past. So again, for many transguys and girls theseobjections would also be a non-issue.

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Third, something about what you seem to be in blissful ignorance. There are people who do not accept trans! Horrible, I know, but it happens. Very very seldom, extremely seldom, but happens. Somewhere. Sometimes. Once in a blue moon. It's not like they are active in this dislike. They simply do not accept trans in their true gender. For those people only biological gender exists and a guy of this sort would rather date an obese girl from the worst of your nightmares than the most stunning transgirl.

I'm hardly in blissful ignorance, and I've had my fair share of rejection. And it's not an uncommon experience either........I'd bet that every trans person here has been rejected by at least one person to whom they were very close, be it family, friend or partner.

But what's your point here? You seem to be saying some people don't like trans people, therefore you had better tell someone you are trans before you date them? The logical consequence of that kind of thinking is that you imply that being a transperson is the most important part of our personalities and that it defines us as people. Well actually, no I don't think like that at all..............it's one very small part of who I am and there are other much more important aspects of my personality and being trans is only one small historical part of who I am. The fact is that many people may be prejudiced and cannot see past a persons colour or religion or nationality or sexuality or trans history or whatever their personal prejudice may be. But the fact that such people exist in the world is hardly a justification or requirement for a trans person to tell all prospective partners of their gender history. I'd like to think that i'm a good enough judge of character to be able to spot such people, and if i'm not then that's my responsibility for failing to see what type of person they were. But saying there are bad people out there so you must disclose to partners is a poor argument, and as such it's also a non-issue.

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Should a diabetics confess to his lover that he is a diabetics? Or should he brush this fact aside as something personal that has nothing to do with his potential long-term partner?

If he doesn't want to tell someone about this........why should he?

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Fourth. Revealing your past would show your respect and trust to the person you love. [/i]

Again, you are making the assumption that this aspect of my past is the dominant characteristic that defines who i am as a person. And I just don't see it like that at all and I'm sure a lot of other trans people don't either. The longer you are past transition, then my gender history becomes less and less of a defining charecteristic of my life. I'd rather share the parts of my personality and life that define who i am as a person now....because sharing the things that are important to you are what love is about. So again I think this objection is irrelevant and a non-issue!

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Fifth. For your own comfort. There is always a chance that sooner or later your partner will know about you.

But surely, if I'm comfortable with not disclosing and take personal responsibility for that choice, then it's nothing to do with anyone else?

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A break up that could follow is not always caused by your partner being a horrible transphobe. Quite often it is caused wioth your partner's hurt feelings. When your secret is revealed (and especially if not by you) she/he will see it as a deceit. Not because you hid your bio gender. But because you hid it from her.

The truth is that a relationship could break up for a million reasons most of which we have little control over or can plan for at the beginning of a relationship. If I choose to increase that number to a million and one, by not revealing my gender history, then again that is my choice and my personal responsibility.

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Basic rights are rights for life and equal treatment. They have nothing to do with this thread.

This is one statement that I totally disagree with! The issues raised in this thread have everything to do with equality and a basic right to privacy. Many people here have suggested that trans people don't have a right to withhold their gender history from prospective partners. In my opinion the examples given re: hair colour, height and obesity are not irrelevant at all. As a thought experiment they highlight the very important principle that is stake, and its that trans people are just as entitled to a private past the same as anyone else. The consequence of suggesting that trans people don't have a right to conceal their past is in effect pathologising trans people and denying them the right to self-determination. It's the equivalent of saying - "This person here is a normal person and they have a right to a private past. Buy you are a trans person and you have this terrible secret in your past, it's a really big thing that defines who you are and if you ever want to be loved then you bloomin well need to tell people about it or else they'll end up dumping you!"

And I'm sorry I just don't accept any of that! I Don't view it as being a terrible secret, it's not such a big deal, it doesn't define who I am as a person, and if it turns out that any partner of mine does think in that way then I'd be dumping them long before they could dump me!

But all of that being said, it is down to the individual to make the decision that is right for them and smithscowboy will need to weigh up all of the issues that have been raised and do what's right for him.

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Cheeky Cat!

For me this issue is a massive conundrum with no right answer. I know what my personal answer is, but there isn't a one true answer for everyone as far as I can see. I think that people have a right to know whether someone is trans, if they are going to be intimate. I also think trans people have a right to go deep stealth if they want to. Some people may not care if their partner is trans. Some people may be happy to be open about being trans. There is definitely scope for some people to get very hurt here......

My own viewpoint is that someone has a right to know if someone they are sleeping with is trans. I reckon if a global survey was done with this question:

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Would it be important for you to know if a sexual partner is transsexual or not? yes/no

a very high proportion of people would say yes. This is of course conjecture and I could be wrong. The question >isn't< asking whether they would or wouldn't have a sexual relationship with a transsexual, just if it is important to know.

Futhermore my own feeling is that up till now in a lot of ways I have been living a lie and the stress of not talking to a single person about how I felt inside was a real big, massive problem for me. When I finally started to tell people it was an almighty rush of release, a liberating experience that felt sooo good. I could never 'live a lie' and pretend to be a natal woman and hide my origins, for me this is unimaginably bad. In fact since coming out I can barely stand to tell even the smallest of lies.

But I am very comfortable with being trans. I have a male side too and I'm happy to have that. Once I have transitioned and lived as a woman for some years I will have had experience of being both man and woman and I think this is a good thing. It's not all good but I like to celebrate the good things I do have

On the other hand I can totally empathise with someone that feels 110% their target gender and wants to live a life 100% in that gender and hates everything of their origins. Why shouldn't they be able to do this? Don't take this next example the wrong way, it's really not a good example in a lot of ways but.... even a criminal is not obliged to incriminate themselves..... really don't take that I'm comparing a trans person with a criminal, the point I'm making is no one has to tell anyone anything about themselves if they don't want to. People have a right to go deep stealth and claim to be a natal woman if they wish. They don't have to lie they can just not say it, how many people need to explicitly state what gender they were born as Hum, I have never given it too much thought, but I'd imagine living deep stealth would actually require some lies now and again??

CheekyCat wrote:

In my experience, the reality is that people are more circumspect and less forthright when it comes to sleeping with someone! Basically, sometimes they are just happy for what they can get!

I was only saying people have a right to be that fussy if they want, not that the majority of people actually are. There are lots of people that wouldn't have any issue with whether someone is trans (or has dark hair, etc) but there are some people that do have those issues.

Juz wrote:

How would a trans person expain that he/she is not able to have children? Not in the most expected way, at least. Mumbling something about "infertility running in my family" or enthusiastically proposing "let's do it in vitro, I'm sure you'll like it!"?

lol that made me laugh

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Memories of childhood, pictures, relatives, friends, - anything that has any bearing to the past should be eliminated, muted or gotten under strict control. Would you feel relaxed and comfortable if you had to constantly control yourself?

Personally I think the same way for myself, but that's a personal issue for each person, rather than something that is affecting someone else.

Juz wrote:

There is always a chance that sooner or later your partner will know about you. A break up that could follow is not always caused by your partner being a horrible transphobe. Quite often it is caused wioth your partner's hurt feelings. When your secret is revealed (and especially if not by you) she/he will see it as a deceit. Not because you hid your bio gender. But because you hid it from her.

I definately agree here. Someone could be totally ok with a partner being trans, but if they only found this out several years into the relationship I think this would be a major problem for most people. Rightly or wrongly, I think most people would see this as a massive deceit.

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Stella Maru wrote:

In my view, we are nothing but our past - right up to the last second gone - so to proclaim the life history unimportant seems strange psychology indeed!

I think the context "past" was used in, clearly meant specifically having transitioned, rather than everything in someone's past. Furthermore if someone has felt 100% their target gender since birth then the way they have dealt with most situations in life would be roughly the same if they had been born with the body of their target gender. Social interaction interferes with that somewhat.

Edit2: Is someone who hides their birth origins lying if they consider they have always been their target gender and now have a body to match?

If we present others with an edited version only of our past, we prevent them from forming informed judgments about it, and to that extent may be seen as manipulating them. Moreover, depriving them of information that might be important to them in arriving at a decision, could, in certain circumstances, be viewed as prejudicial to the principle of informed consent.

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Cheeky Cat!