This is something I have been pondering for some time and I wondered what individual and different challenges that genetically male and genetically female transsexual people face (I do not say MtF and FtM strictly as not all people consider themselves to be this).

Some of the points I came up with were:

For MtFs or male born transgendered people:

- Have more issues with being confused with transvestitism and sexual arousal
- More frowned upon for "cross-dressing"
- More well known
- Tend to adhere more to the female norm compared to FtM, especially those with more 'traditional' viewpoints on what is a 'real' transsexual (doesn't mean that a significant proportion still don't, however)
- Some inevitably have to be open about their status since hormones cannot make enough change in some cases
- Seen by some as "lowering" themselves from male privilege
- Tend to be under more pressure to conform to the male stereotype pre-transition which can be distressing when transition starts and this is undone

For FtMs or female born transgendered people (obviously I don't have experience of this so others can elaborate)

- Less well known
- Issues with sex due to insufficient or expensive SRS
- May be accused of wanting "male privilege"
- Possible ostracization in former lesbian/feminist communities (less MtFs seem to be in former gay male communities)

Any thoughts?

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It's never too late to be who you might have been. - Mary Ann Evans

I think it would be fair to say the social situations of MtFs and FtMs are not mirror images of each other.

The pantomime lead boy played by a girl is not exposed to the scorn and ridicule reserved for the MtF Ugly Sisters whose images haunt television advertising and the tabloid world-view.

Feminist 'historians' have even been able to claim - usually without producing any evidence - that notable cross-dressed women of the past cross-dressed only to escape patriarchal oppression and such, but afford no such license to their interpretation of MtFs.

The thing is to remember that trans folk are already a community riven by sectional interests, with insecure transsexuals vilifying transvestites, others deciding who is, and who is not, a "true transsexual", with those that "pass" decrying those who do not, with those who can afford private surgical procedures thinking themselves a better class than those who cannot, and so on.

So let's not add to this re-creation of "the other."

i think one which counts for both would be, constantly having to explain themselves when their voice gives them away.

but i definatly think that theres alot of differences in the challenges faced by male born and female born transsexuals.

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It's never too late to be who you might have been. - Mary Ann Evans

well i obviously can only speak from my point of view of a male in the community i suppose.

yes, transgendered men are less well known among the public in general. when you mention a transgendered person, people automatically talk about transgendered women as though they're the only kind of transsexual there is.

transgendered guys are becoming a bit more exposed, but most people wrongly assume (either from media portrayals that are bizarrely played by cisgendered women) that transgendered guys will look like a butch female.

of course, they are immensely surprised, and often in disbelief, when they meet a real transgendered male and realise they would not be able to distinguish him from his cisgendered counterpart.

but even with exposure, trans guys will always be invisible because T changes them so dramatically into, well, ordinary looking blokes. there are no ''give aways''.

of course, pre-T a lot of guys will either look like young boys or butch females (depending on how lucky they are with their genetics) and sometimes, especially if they are the latter, the higher voice can be a give away. in the former though, the voice would fit the ''young boy'' they're seen as.

a lot of trans guys face the ''age issue''. where they look a lot younger than they really are. i like this, in a way, and i make a joke out of it all the time, but sometimes it can be quite annoying when you're in age restricted zones and you get asked to leave before they even ask for ID...because they think there is no way you could possibly be even near legal! of course, that's where actual ID comes in handy.

as a gay lad, who's only ever been in the gay community i won't experience the shunning of any sexuality group because i nicely blend in there- in the group i belong in. i find the kind of 'twink' look gets me a lot of unwanted attention among gay men though.

sex hasn't been a problem at all, nor is it compromising anything for me or my partner. it's pretty perfect already, and i imagine it can only get better. it's a pretty normal gay relationship.

i can't really speak about what it's like to be accused of wanting male priviledge, because i haven't been, ever. but then i'm pretty young and seen as a boy, not a man, anyway. but in the days of equality and every sex having equal opportunities in life i don't see how ''male priviledge'' can affect anyone's life beyond having to listen to old sexist opinions. and people's opinions aren't going to affect your opportunities at all.

i guess girls aren't so lucky that their voice can't be unbroken and sometimes hormones don't do enough physically...but then again i've seen plenty of transgendered girls who are just as female looking as cisgendered girls.

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forum moderator

Or we could just not care or attempt to one-up each other. It's a temporary disorder if you choose it to be. I see mine as just that so I'm not really caring about these things. They don't affect me or most girls in the situation that I know on a day to day basis.

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Hellfrozeover be a pirate and a Transgenderzone moderator.

I don't stand under the TG umbrella anymore, it's way too bitchy and crowded in there but it's sunny out here

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forum moderator

Yes, it can be a temporary disorder, for those who wish to normalise their lives and no longer live in the "trans" community or those who do not wish to think about trans issues too much, which is certainly what I am aiming to do, which helps - although it is not always the case - some can still suffer gender dysphoria from memories as their previous gender even well into transition, and can be triggered by such things as being with family who do not accept well, etc - and for some who do not look entirely like the gender they are, it can be a constant issue, unfortunately.

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It's never too late to be who you might have been. - Mary Ann Evans

Everything is choice. They can choose to leave their families. I'm not saying they should but they can and they can work their arses off and get FFS. If someone really wants something, they'll get it(within reason). Some doctors will even risk shoulder reduction but you have to really look for them. I really do think our differences are a bit of a non-issue though. We all have to do it and it's harder for some, easier for others regardless of gender. Of course there are differences but I really don't think it makes any one side easier or it more acceptable for one to play the martyr.

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Hellfrozeover be a pirate and a Transgenderzone moderator.

I don't stand under the TG umbrella anymore, it's way too bitchy and crowded in there but it's sunny out here

That’s an interesting mentality. One that I am jealous of.

The thought of one day being ‘cured’ has never even crossed my mind. As far as I am aware being trans* is inherently a compromise between what you started with and what medical science is able to achieve.

Correct me if I am wrong, but from my own understanding medical science has not succeeded in changing anyone’s gender totally. What they can do is rearrange in order to give a cosmetic appearance to fit the gender association of the individual. In fact, to say that a cure exists is to deny your transient nature and that seems somewhat troublesome.

Now, please don’t misinterpret this as a ‘want’ to be trans*. It is more an acceptance of my own history and therefore future. If I was not trans* would I be the person I am today? No. I wouldn’t, my life experiences would be different etc etc … and this might be controversial, but I quite like who I am and being trans*, however much I may dislike it, is apart of that. To deny that to myself, i.e. by thinking of myself as ‘cured’ is to deny my own nature. Of course I am not saying that I should go out and scream from the roofs about my history, in fact I would one day assume that I shall be stealth, just because I don’t openly talk about it doesn’t mean it’s disappeared like an inflection, I hate to say it but should we not be proud of who we are? If not openly then at least to ourselves?

But is this merely a pessimistic view formed by a pessimistic mind?
Are my understandings of medical science wrong?
Am I forming answers to questions that I am in no position, as having not been ‘cured’, understand let alone answer?

I do however find the assumption that medical science can solve all these issues insulting. Insinuating that those who are not ‘cured’ are merely too lazy to get the money together to have surgeons cut away at their face is disrespectful. Acceptance of ones transient nature is not a marker of defeat but in many ways one of victory. Please do not assume that because it is possible for you that it is possible for everyone, and in doing so judge those who choose a different path.

I'm not proud of being trans but I'm not ashamed of it either. I see myself more as having an intersexed past than being trans. I just don't understand transitioning to be a transsexual and not a gender. I can see alot of what you're saying but I really don't see myself identifying as trans at all, especially once it's all sorted as far as it can be. Some cis women are born with no internal vagina which has to be reconstructed in a way similar to our's, some are just plain infertile. It happens. If medical advances can't give some cis women fertility then we'll be on the same boat as them really, not any more disadvantaged.

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Hellfrozeover be a pirate and a Transgenderzone moderator.

I don't stand under the TG umbrella anymore, it's way too bitchy and crowded in there but it's sunny out here

SignalFailure: +100

The only thing I can't agree with, is the "being proud" bit. Even for myself, I'm not proud of what I am, I find it very uncomfortable, rather shameful and I wish I'd been born as I should have been.