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Opinion: Searching for trans love in the gay world

 
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Stella Maru



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:15 pm    Post subject: Opinion: Searching for trans love in the gay world Reply with quote

Searching for trans love in the gay world
Are queer women more open to dating trans partners than gay men?

By RYAN LEE
Southern Voice
25th July 2008

It’s been more than two years since Ja’e Kendricks has been involved in a serious romantic relationship. When frequenting venues where other gay men meet for dating and sex, Kendricks knows to expect “really, really bad treatment.”

“It’s already bad enough that you’re part of a community that’s been scrutinized and judged, and because society has become more accepting [of gay people], we’ve created new divisions among us,” said Kendricks, a 28-year-old Buckhead resident.

Two years ago, Kendricks began living as a woman full time, although she identifies as “a gay man who happens to be transgender.”

“Since I’ve transitioned, I haven’t had a relationship,” said Kendricks, who added that she has no plans to undergo sex reassignment surgery.

“I’m attracted to gay, bisexual and straight men equally, but I think it’s a matter of finding someone who will respect me as I am, and be willing to grow,” she said. “There are very few gay men that are open to dating, or I would even say being intimate, with someone who is transgender.

Like many queer singles, Kendricks has profiles on online dating sites like Black Gay Chat Live. But logging on and chatting is rarely a rewarding experience for Kendricks, who is often ignored or chastised by other users.

“The verbiage is really just amazing, it makes me feel bad,” Kendricks said. “If I was to compliment someone, or even tell them I think they’re attractive or ask them if they want to converse, they’ll tell me, ‘You’re nasty,’ or ‘If I wanted a woman, I will go get with one.’”

WOMEN MORE OPEN TO TRANS PARTNERS?

The spirit of unity embodied in the “LGBT” acronym used by so many is belied by how often gay men and lesbians marginalize transgender individuals. Even the nation’s largest gay rights group, the Human Rights Campaign, took heat when it supported a federal non-discrimination law that prohibited workplace bias based on sexual orientation, but not gender identity.

But marginalization also occurs in lesbian nightclubs, gay chat rooms, and other queer social venues. Transgender men and women sometimes feel like outcasts while looking for romantic partners in a community to which they are supposed to belong.

Also contributing to the gay-trans divide is that some transgender people — such as a man who becomes a woman and pursues heterosexual relationships with men — in no way identify as part of gay culture.

A few years ago, Jaclyn Barbarow was in a relationship with another woman who decided to transition into a man. The love the two shared survived throughout the partner’s transition, but eventually it became clear that the relationship could not continue.

“He went from fighting his own demons and trying to pretend he was someone he wasn’t to really understanding who he was,” Barbarow said. “But who he is is a straight man, and that conflicted with my very queer identity.

“The queer community didn’t sit right with him because he’s straight,” said Barbarow, who considers herself pansexual, and open to relationships with any type of queer man or woman.

Barbarow continues to date female-to-male transgender individuals, and she organized a support group for people who have a trans partner.

Sarah Meng was also involved in a relationship with another woman when, about a year into the relationship, Meng’s partner told her that he was transgender and was going to become a man.

“I was really into him as a person, and so the gender shifts — of course was a big deal — but that wasn’t why I was in the relationship,” said Meng, who identifies as queer.

Meng avoids identifying as a lesbian to recognize her own gender flexibility, but also because, “I think that would really disrespect some of the trans guys I’ve dated,” she said.

Even though most of the people Meng dates are female-to-male transgender individuals who identify as men, she believes it’s important that her partners do not perceive their relationship as a heterosexual one.

“I tend to date trans men who are queer-identified rather than straight identified,” Meng said.

Gay men and lesbians “may really be the worst” when it comes to understanding and being respectful of transgender issues, but Meng said female-to-male “trans men” are becoming an increasingly popular fixture in the lesbian scene. Still, Meng worries about gay women objectifying trans men.

“I think folks have to be careful about not fetishizing,” Meng said. “I think there are a number of lesbians who date trans people because they’re trans, and not just because they have a lot of interesting things to say or are involved in a lot of the same activities. Their primary interest is their [partner’s] trans-ness.”

Sir Jesse McNulty remembers during the 1990s when he was one of the first and only trans men who continued to frequent lesbian venues after he transitioned into a man.

“I had a lot of hostility from everybody, and the queer community treated me a lot worse, actually, than some of the straight community, like my teaching buddies,” McNulty said.

“They really let me down,” McNulty said. “It was very hostile. It was almost like they were thinking I want some kind of promotion or something.

“Now, I think trans has been the new pink for a little while,” McNulty added. “I think you can’t swing a cat in any lesbian’s face without hitting several trans-identified people. So I think, overall, the environment is getting better, but there’s still a lot of ignorance.”

McNulty’s female partner, Jennifer Purvis, believes “there’s still a lot of trans phobia in the gay community,” like when people question whether Purvis can be queer with a male partner.

“People’s frameworks are, you’re gay or you’re straight, so what are you now?” Purvis said.

She added that she believes women may be “more prone to break down those kinds of binaries,” and so may be more willing to explore relationships with trans partners.

CONNECTIONS CROSS BOUNDARIES

While many transgender individuals seek out heterosexual partners, there is a dizzying diversity of transgender love across sexual orientations.

“It’s a growing dynamic, still — people are sorting it out,” said Renee Reyes, a male-to-female transgender Atlanta resident who offers comprehensive advice for trans dating at her blog, reneereyes.com.

Given the “penis-driven” culture among gay men, a fair amount of male-to-female transgender folks wind up dating lesbian women, according to Reyes.

“You typically have lesbian women that are more likely to be attracted to an MTF trans woman, than you will have a gay man attracted to a MTF trans woman,” Reyes said. “You have a lot of women who will go there with an MTF.

“I’ve had a couple of great relationships with some gay guys, but to me, that’s not really where most of them want to go,” said Reyes, who noted that most of the visitors to her website are heterosexual men interested in trans women.

Gay Atlantan Chuck Jones has never seriously considered dating an MTF trans woman because, “I’m not attracted to that, to be honest.”

But about five years ago, Jones was on the cusp of pursuing a gay-trans relationship. After chatting with a guy on the social networking website Friendster, Jones and his chat buddy agreed to go on a date to an art gallery and vegan restaurant in the East Atlanta Village.

“The date went really, really well, and we had tons in common,” Jones said, noting that his date was “very cute” and the two of them “made out in the parking lot for a long time.”

A few days later, Jones received an e-mail from his date, who acknowledged that he was a FTM trans man who was interested in dating other gay men.

“From my perspective, that was something totally different, but it didn’t freak me out at all,” Jones said.

The relationship soon fizzled, but only because Jones was still recovering from his previous relationship.

“Had I been in a totally different place, I would’ve been kind of curious if it would’ve developed into something,” Jones said. “I consider myself open to any possibility. It’s not something, honestly, that I know I would look for, but I definitely would not have shut myself off to it.”

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Razor



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Opinion: Searching for trans love in the gay world Reply with quote

Quote:
The spirit of unity embodied in the “LGBT” acronym used by so many is belied by how often gay men and lesbians marginalize transgender individuals. Even the nation’s largest gay rights group, the Human Rights Campaign, took heat when it supported a federal non-discrimination law that prohibited workplace bias based on sexual orientation, but not gender identity.

But marginalization also occurs in lesbian nightclubs, gay chat rooms, and other queer social venues. Transgender men and women sometimes feel like outcasts while looking for romantic partners in a community to which they are supposed to belong.


ladies and gentlemen
may this be presented to you
exclusively as
the biggest and most cruel truth in our universe
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Skyler
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Opinion: Searching for trans love in the gay world Reply with quote

Stella Maru wrote:

“You typically have lesbian women that are more likely to be attracted to an MTF trans woman, than you will have a gay man attracted to a MTF trans woman,” Reyes said.


...um isn't that how it should be? Lesbians are more likely to be attracted to women overall than gay men. Considering, you know, the meanings of "lesbian" and "gay man"
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BlackandPurple
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dating sombody would be a difficult thing for me, yeah it can be confusing to some Hetrosexsuals who endup attracted to Transgender people, I've been through it, it's more complex than alot of people think.

some straight guys mistake me as a biological female and when I tell them about what I really am they scratch their heads and got all confused about it, it was kinda funny but it's also very sad for me to realise they can't accept it very well, and that puts alot of guilt on me for making them feel as if i've tricked them.

To find real love and relationships is for sombody who will accept and know what they are up against with a transgender partner and to care and support the person, that's what a true relationship is all about.

Affection and understanding.

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PurplePrincess
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Opinion: Searching for trans love in the gay world Reply with quote

Quote:
Two years ago, Kendricks began living as a woman full time, although she identifies as “a gay man who happens to be transgender.”
Hmmm it is confusing I'd say, I don't really understand. My automatic assumption is when someone transitions and lives as a woman full time then they identify as a woman and not a gay man.
Quote:
“There are very few gay men that are open to dating, or I would even say being intimate, with someone who is transgender.
I would guess that there are gay men around that date trans guys, but yes I doubt that there many that would date someone living as a woman full time. Am I missing something, surely that is just the same as dating a woman, not something many gay guys would want to do.
Quote:
Also contributing to the gay-trans divide is that some transgender people — such as a man who becomes a woman and pursues heterosexual relationships with men — in no way identify as part of gay culture.
Only some? If you are a trans woman and date guys then why would you identify as gay? I think a lot of this is to do with how some people in society see trans people. There are a lot of news articles around where a trans woman is called a transgender man and also a trans man being called a transgender woman, which in my view is just totally wrong. It seems that a lot of the media, which does influence people's ideas, they just don't accept trans people as the gender they are.

How much of this is to do with gender identity or to do with sexual organs? It seems that some people in relationships where one is trans, relationships that would be straight according to gender identity alone. Some people can be in those relationships and also be gay, is it because both partners might still have the same sexual organ? I don't think a person's gender identity should be judged on sexual organs personally.

I think loving a person for who they are and how they identify themselves is far important that what sexual organ they have. Of course for some people it is hard to be able to make love when they have a different sexual organ than their sexual preference.

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BlackandPurple
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think loving a person for who they are and how they identify themselves is far important that what sexual organ they have. Of course for some people it is hard to be able to make love when they have a different sexual organ than their sexual preference.


Your right about that.

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thedreadpersephone
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Opinion: Searching for trans love in the gay world Reply with quote

PurplePrincess wrote:
I would guess that there are gay men around that date trans guys, but yes I doubt that there many that would date someone living as a woman full time. Am I missing something, surely that is just the same as dating a woman, not something many gay guys would want to do.


Try this on for size: I would guess that there are lesbians around that date trans women, but I doubt that there are many that would date someone living as a man full time. Am I missing something, surely that is just the same as dating a man, not something many lesbians would want to do.

Very Happy

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Opinion: Searching for trans love in the gay world Reply with quote

thedreadpersephone wrote:
PurplePrincess wrote:
I would guess that there are gay men around that date trans guys, but yes I doubt that there many that would date someone living as a woman full time. Am I missing something, surely that is just the same as dating a woman, not something many gay guys would want to do.


Try this on for size: I would guess that there are lesbians around that date trans women, but I doubt that there are many that would date someone living as a man full time. Am I missing something, surely that is just the same as dating a man, not something many lesbians would want to do.

Very Happy
I'm not sure what you are saying.

I think it is unusual for someone trans to transition but still identify as their previous gender. Perhaps I was a little hasty with how I made my comments. I do understand that love can transgress boundaries of gender and expression and many things. A lot of people are quite closed minded about such things and I guess it makes it a little harder to find a partner that is open and accepts something a little different.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Opinion: Searching for trans love in the gay world Reply with quote

PurplePrincess wrote:
thedreadpersephone wrote:
PurplePrincess wrote:
I would guess that there are gay men around that date trans guys, but yes I doubt that there many that would date someone living as a woman full time. Am I missing something, surely that is just the same as dating a woman, not something many gay guys would want to do.


Try this on for size: I would guess that there are lesbians around that date trans women, but I doubt that there are many that would date someone living as a man full time. Am I missing something, surely that is just the same as dating a man, not something many lesbians would want to do.

Very Happy
I'm not sure what you are saying.

I think TDP is referring to the fact that she IDs as a lesbian - as does my partner, and the partners of a number of my FTM friends - but is with someone who lives as a man full-time. For some of us, it's because we were in the relationship prior to transitioning; for others it's because something just clicked between the two people involved. Similarly, I do know some trans women who are in relationships with gay guys also.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Opinion: Searching for trans love in the gay world Reply with quote

Flameboy wrote:
I think TDP is referring to the fact that she IDs as a lesbian - as does my partner, and the partners of a number of my FTM friends - but is with someone who lives as a man full-time. For some of us, it's because we were in the relationship prior to transitioning; for others it's because something just clicked between the two people involved. Similarly, I do know some trans women who are in relationships with gay guys also.
Yeah, I realised that, I did write my original post without thinking very carefully. I was mainly confused with a trans person transitioning but still identifying as the same, isn't that not transitioning, or transitioning in social role but not in a sexual role. I do understand partners of trans people can have sexualities that appear to conflict with how their partner identifies and they can be completely sure in their own sexuality. I guess I really didn't think to carefully before posting, sorry.

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