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**Hellfrozeover** · Advisor Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 773 Location: UK

Juz wrote:

SignalFailure: +100

The only thing I can't agree with, is the "being proud" bit. Even for myself, I'm not proud of what I am, I find it very uncomfortable, rather shameful and I wish I'd been born as I should have been.

Maybe instead you should be proud of what you've done in your life. It's that that makes the person, not how you were born. Helping people on here is one such example Smile

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Hellfrozeover be a pirate and a Transgenderzone moderator.

I don't stand under the TG umbrella anymore, it's way too bitchy and crowded in there but it's sunny out here Smile

CheekyCat · Joined: 20 Aug 2007 Posts: 458 Location: UK

SignalFailure wrote:

That’s an interesting mentality. One that I am jealous of.

The thought of one day being ‘cured’ has never even crossed my mind. As far as I am aware being trans* is inherently a compromise between what you started with and what medical science is able to achieve.

Correct me if I am wrong, but from my own understanding medical science has not succeeded in changing anyone’s gender totally. What they can do is rearrange in order to give a cosmetic appearance to fit the gender association of the individual. In fact, to say that a cure exists is to deny your transient nature and that seems somewhat troublesome.

Now, please don’t misinterpret this as a ‘want’ to be trans*. It is more an acceptance of my own history and therefore future. If I was not trans* would I be the person I am today? No. I wouldn’t, my life experiences would be different etc etc … and this might be controversial, but I quite like who I am and being trans*, however much I may dislike it, is apart of that. To deny that to myself, i.e. by thinking of myself as ‘cured’ is to deny my own nature. Of course I am not saying that I should go out and scream from the roofs about my history, in fact I would one day assume that I shall be stealth, just because I don’t openly talk about it doesn’t mean it’s disappeared like an inflection, I hate to say it but should we not be proud of who we are? If not openly then at least to ourselves?

But is this merely a pessimistic view formed by a pessimistic mind?
Are my understandings of medical science wrong?
Am I forming answers to questions that I am in no position, as having not been ‘cured’, understand let alone answer?

I do however find the assumption that medical science can solve all these issues insulting. Insinuating that those who are not ‘cured’ are merely too lazy to get the money together to have surgeons cut away at their face is disrespectful. Acceptance of ones transient nature is not a marker of defeat but in many ways one of victory. Please do not assume that because it is possible for you that it is possible for everyone, and in doing so judge those who choose a different path.

Hey I think you raise some interesting points above, but in general I would agree with Hellfrozeover's view that one's trans past can be viewed as a "temporary disorder".

And to answer one of your question, I would say yes, I do think that your views are rather pessimistic! And rather than look to medical science to provide all the answers, why not look to yourself? Medical science will take you to a point where your external physical appearance is indistingishable from that of any other young woman. And looking at your picture I don't think you will have any problems in that respect. Very Happy

However, surely once you reach that point you can no longer think in terms of your transient nature? There's got to reach a point where you stop the process of becoming a woman and simply start being a woman? And medical science can only do so much to take you there and that final step is more about your intrinsic definition of self.

Again, I agree with Hellfrozeover, in that there eventually comes a point where being trans is not an issue in your everyday life. So why hang onto a self-identity where your primary identification is being trans when that aspect of your identity no longer has a major impact on your everyday life?

And finally, in response to you final comments:-

"Please do not assume that because it is possible for you that it is possible for everyone, and in doing so judge those who choose a different path"

This point and similar comments seem to pop up time and again in relation to people who go stealth. But to be honest I fail to see the logic of the argument that by going stealth I am somehow passing judgement on those who choose not go stealth, whether by choice or otherwise. All I'm simply doing is living my life in the way that is most comfortable for me and in no way is that passing judgement on anyone else.

Anyway, I think that the questions that you pose are very interesting, and I suspect that as you progress with you journey your opinions may well evolve with time. I certainly know that mine did!

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Cheeky Cat!

SignalFailure · Joined: 10 Aug 2007 Posts: 80 Location: Leeds

Quote:

And to answer one of your question, I would say yes, I do think that your views are rather pessimistic! And rather than look to medical science to provide all the answers, why not look to yourself? Medical science will take you to a point where your external physical appearance is indistingishable from that of any other young woman. And looking at your picture I don't think you will have any problems in that respect. Very Happy

However, surely once you reach that point you can no longer think in terms of your transient nature? There's got to reach a point where you stop the process of becoming a woman and simply start being a woman? And medical science can only do so much to take you there and that final step is more about your intrinsic definition of self.

I was going to write a long and drawn out response … But it sounded pessimistic and just made me feel abit sad reading it :p

So I thought maybe it would be better to just agree.

Since I knew from the start that my education would come before any surgeries (due to money) I have approached the whole transition thing as a mental rather than a physical thing. Which as you can imagine can become quite frustrating at times, but I guess I am happy being just me. I don’t think surgery solves the problems, it does however allow you to be accepted within wider society as a true women. But you cant buy happiness, that just takes abit of good old fashioned time Very Happy

Oh vanity! Oh desire! One day, one day (x1000 times) lol

I do hope yr right.

Forever Forward! Yay! Very Happy

**Hellfrozeover** · Advisor Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 773 Location: UK

Rachel, I think this might be one of these things where everyone is right since it really all boils down to how you feel at the end of the day. There's alot to be pessimistic over during transition but it's better to realise you think one thing or another won't happen than to pretend you're okay with it so all is good so far I guess...I'm rambling Razz

!

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Hellfrozeover be a pirate and a Transgenderzone moderator.

I don't stand under the TG umbrella anymore, it's way too bitchy and crowded in there but it's sunny out here Smile