tzone

Herb · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:14 pm Post subject: Intersex?

So there I was, chatting on Second Life, and I met someone who mentioned they were intersex, and pointed me to http://www.xxytalk.com/ , a forum for intersex issues. There's a checklist of items in there to help do a self-diagnosis. I did it purely for curiosity.

But, I checked off most of them.

I *know* any kind of online test like that shouldn't be taken too seriously as a real diagnosis, but it has gotten me wondering. It would be well worth me checking it out properly. Even if I am not (which, realistically, is what I expect), it won't affect my desire to transition. But if I am, it would be something to wave in mum's face to persuade her I am no crazy.

That said, my question really, is, what is the fastest way to get a real diagnosis on this for myself? Information on both NHS and private UK healthcare approaches would be appreciated.

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Nathan · Tzoner Joined: 19 May 2007 Posts: 809 Location: Brighton

intersex has been one of the things ive been curious to see if i am or not. or if its likely, also out of curiousity.

where about is the checklist Herb? the link you posted gets me to the site but i cant find it.

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Herb · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:39 pm Post subject:

Not sure if these direct links will work... you might need to be registered there...

Disclaimer: This is net weirdness at its finest, and no substitute for professional medical advice. Enjoy.

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http://www.xxytalk.com/fusionbb/attachment.php?attid/524/

So many come here to ask if they are XXY. Many are convinced they are. They don't realize just how likely they are or are not XXY based on the most obvious: your testicles' size.

For your use I am attaching a PDF file called "ORCHIDOMETER". I am not certain and perhaps others should correct me, but I would think any size less than an 8 or probably a 6 would be XXY material. Many and perhaps most XXY's have balls the size of 1 or 2. For an XY male that is a "childhood" size. A "1" is pea sized. Pea sized is very common for XXY's. Although some XXY's have them the size of mid-puberty such as 8 or 10's, but I would think they are rare.

Look below and see the filename attached called "orchidometer.pdf". Click that and it should load up automatically using the Adobe Acrobat free program on your pc.

Print it out. Find some privacy for yourself. Drop your drawers and compare your balls to the sizes indicated.

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http://www.xxytalk.com/fusionbb/attachment.php?attid/27/

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**ice maiden** · Advisor Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 2734

theoretically intersex is chromosome level

in that your dna will tell you simply if you are intersex or not - or your birth state genitalia - often altered by parental wishes - later regretted

after that its a mental health issue and should be termed transgender as far as i am concerned Smile

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Man [...] must count no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth." (Jean Paul Sartre, 1943)

Herb · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:23 pm Post subject:

I should add that I have no reason to believe there was any intersex condition that was visible at birth. In my case, if there is any, it would be purely hormonal and/or dna-based.

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Stella Maru · Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 2221 Location: Brighton

ice maiden wrote:

your birth state genitalia - often altered by parental wishes - later regretted

The situation - and the case for surgical intervention - is by no means as simple as the politicians of gender identity would have us believe. For example, undifferentiated gonadal tissue can, and sometimes does, lead to the development of tumours such as gonadoblastoma, as the very recent research shewn below makes clear:

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Best Pract Res Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Sep;21(3):480-95.

Tumor risk in disorders of sex development (DSD).
Looijenga LH, Hersmus R, Oosterhuis JW, Cools M, Drop SL, Wolffenbuttel KP.

Department of Pathology, Erasmus MC - University Medical Center Rotterdam, Daniel den Hoed Cancer Center, Josephine Nefkens Institute, Building Be, Room 430b, Dr Molewaterplein 50, 3015 GE Rotterdam, The Netherlands. l.looijenga@erasmusmc.nl

Disorders of sex development (DSD), previously referred to as intersex disorders, comprise a variety of anomalies defined by congenital conditions in which chromosomal, gonadal, or anatomical sex is atypical. Besides issues such as gender assignment, clinical and diagnostic evaluation, surgical and psychosocial management, and sex steroid replacement, the significantly increased risk for developing specific types of malignancies is both clinically and biologically relevant. This relates to germ-cell tumors specifically in DSD patients with hypovirilization or gonadal dysgenesis. The presence of a well-defined part of the Y chromosome (known as the GBY region) is a prerequisite for malignant transformation, for which the testis-specific protein on the Y chromosome (TSPY) is a likely candidate gene. The precursor lesions of these cancers are carcinoma in situ (CIS)/intratubular germ-cell neoplasia unclassified (ITGCNU) in testicular tissue and gonadoblastoma in those without obvious testicular differentiation. Most recently, undifferentiated gonadal tissue (UGT) has been identified as the likely precursor for gonadoblastoma. The availability of markers for the different developmental stages of germ cells allows detailed investigation of the characteristics of normal and (pre)malignant germ cells. Although informative in a diagnostic setting for adult male patients, these markers - such as OCT3/4 - cannot easily distinguish (pre)malignant germ cells from germ cells showing delayed maturation. This latter phenomenon is frequently found in gonads of DSD patients, and may be related to the risk of malignant transformation. Thus, the mere application of these markers might result in over-diagnosis and unnecessary gonadectomy. It is proposed that morphological and histological evaluation of gonadal tissue, in combination with OCT3/4 and TSPY double immunohistochemistry and clinical parameters, is most informative in estimating the risk for germ-cell tumor development in the individual patient, and might in future be used to develop a decision tree for optimal management of patients with DSD.

**Reenie** · Reporter Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 4085 Location: Glasgow

We have the concept of Chimera, an organism that has at least two distinct sets of DNA. A chimera can arise from the fusion of two separately fertilised eggs which have then fused together.

I've often wondered, but it's not going to make any difference to my life. I'm not losing sleep because of it.

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**ice maiden** · Advisor Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 2734

interesting but is unrelated to transgender issues other than something 'looks' like something else

often surgeons do reassign children - and to think no GRC was ever needed - funny that

this is a good read inc audio file
CAUTION THIS LINK HAS IMAGES OF INTERSEX GENITLIA
http://www.transgenderzone.com/library/hl/fulltext/30.htm

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Man [...] must count no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth." (Jean Paul Sartre, 1943)

**Reenie** · Reporter Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 4085 Location: Glasgow

ice maiden wrote:

...iunrelated to transgender...

Unless one zygote is XY and the other XX.

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