tzone

DreadfulFerretofDoom · Joined: 13 Mar 2007 Posts: 65 Location: USA,Indiana

Have any you mtf have gynaecomastia.I have a mild form of it I'm not really sure if its still like that,but my left breast is still bigger than my right.I got diagnosed with it about 8 months ago.I got my hormones tested and they came back normal at that time.I think it was one of my pills.

**Hellfrozeover** · Advisor Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 797 Location: UK

Yeah, I've got a set of Bs that seem to have set up home on my chest. I'm quite satisfied with them being there and they don't show any signs of going. Hopefully they'll explode on hormones though lol. Alot of MtFs have reported having gynaecomastia or a hypospadias(I've got both although I'm IS in other ways as well as being TS so I don't count :/ .. The last one prevents me from "modelling haha Razz

!). It kind makes you think about transsexualism being an IS condition. Alot of FtMs have enlarged clitorises(clitorii?) and facial hair.

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**Reenie** · Reporter Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 4085 Location: Glasgow

Hellfrozeover wrote:

Hopefully they'll explode on hormones though lol

Can you get close enough to Tony Blair? Very Happy

Stella Maru · Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 2221 Location: Brighton

Hellfrozeover wrote:

It kind makes you think about transsexualism being an IS condition.

This was the argument put forward by Dr Zoe Jane Playdon in "Transsexualism as an intersex condition" - a document submitted by PFC and included (as I remember) in the 2000 Home Office paper Report of the Interdepartmental Working Group on Transsexual People which laid the groundwork for the Gender Recognition Act.

emrock · Tzoner Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 228 Location: London

I like that arguement, but always get nervous about things like that, becasue before you know it people will say you arn't transsexual unless you have gynaecomastia. I don't have any of those conditions, and so get worried that it would make people doubt me more.

Though it is true that I have never had much facial hair and I have always had soft skin. And my feet are pretty small at size 7, and I know girls with bigger hands than me, so maybe there is some truth in it. But I would still be cautious...

**Hellfrozeover** · Advisor Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 797 Location: UK

Reenie wrote:

Hellfrozeover wrote:

Hopefully they'll explode on hormones though lol

Can you get close enough to Tony Blair? Very Happy

What he doesn't know is that the weapons of mass destruction are actually in my knickers. The boobs are just a decoy Very Happy

.

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DreadfulFerretofDoom · Joined: 13 Mar 2007 Posts: 65 Location: USA,Indiana

well I thought transsexualism was IS with female/male brain(even if its just in the gender identity part) with a male/female body

**Hellfrozeover** · Advisor Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 797 Location: UK

DreadfulFerretofDoom wrote:

well I thought transsexualism was IS with female/male brain(even if its just in the gender identity part) with a male/female body

Yeah but unfortunately as far as the general public are concerned there's no conclusive proof that we aren't just nuts Confused

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Stella Maru · Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 2221 Location: Brighton

emrock wrote:

I like that arguement, but always get nervous about things like that, becasue before you know it people will say you arn't transsexual unless you have gynaecomastia.

Playdon's paper did not refer to secondary sexual characteristics, ambiguous genitalia and so on, but was an attempt to make a practical, legal argument out of the well-known Dutch research based on autopsy reports of nine transsexuals first published here:

A Sex Difference in the Human Brain and its Relation to Transsexuality
By J.-N. Zhou, M.A. Hofman, L.J. Gooren and D.F. Swaab, NATURE, 378: 68-70 (1995)

Though contemporary biological explanations (and apologies!) for transsexualism often depend on this research, it remains controversial, with many critics.

Scaeme · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:02 am Post subject:

I've actualy been wondering for years whether the enlargement on the left side of my chest is a moob or gyno-icantspellit although since I lost a lot of weight in uni and it hasnt seem to have got any smaller I think it may be the later.

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**Hellfrozeover** · Advisor Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 797 Location: UK

Stella Maru wrote:

Though contemporary biological explanations (and apologies!) for transsexualism often depend on this research, it remains controversial, with many critics.

Yeah didn't they find out it was the hormones that altered the brain to make it appear more female and not the transsexuality itself?

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Hellfrozeover be a pirate and a Transgenderzone moderator.

I don't stand under the TG umbrella anymore, it's way too bitchy and crowded in there but it's sunny out here Smile

Stella Maru · Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 2221 Location: Brighton

Hellfrozeover wrote:

Yeah didn't they find out it was the hormones that altered the brain to make it appear more female and not the transsexuality itself?

That was suggsted by some detractors, but Zhou, Gooren et al. responded by claiming their findings were proof against this.

Other aspects of the brain do appear to be influenced by hormones in trans folk, see for example:

Eur J Endocrinol. 2006 Nov;155 Suppl 1:S107-14.

Changing your sex changes your brain: influences of testosterone and estrogen on adult human brain structure.

Hulshoff Pol HE, Cohen-Kettenis PT, Van Haren NE, Peper JS, Brans RG, Cahn W, Schnack HG, Gooren LJ, Kahn RS.

Department of Psychiatry, Rudolf Magnus Institute of Neuroscience, University Medical Center Utrecht, A01.126, Heidelberglaan 100, 3584 CX Utrecht, The Netherlands.

OBJECTIVE: Sex hormones are not only involved in the formation of reproductive organs, but also induce sexually-dimorphic brain development and organization. Cross-sex hormone administration to transsexuals provides a unique possibility to study the effects of sex steroids on brain morphology in young adulthood.

METHODS: Magnetic resonance brain images were made prior to, and during, cross-sex hormone treatment to study the influence of anti-androgen + estrogen treatment on brain morphology in eight young adult male-to-female transsexual human subjects and of androgen treatment in six female-to-male transsexuals.

RESULTS: Compared with controls, anti-androgen + estrogen treatment decreased brain volumes of male-to-female subjects towards female proportions, while androgen treatment in female-to-male subjects increased total brain and hypothalamus volumes towards male proportions.

CONCLUSIONS: The findings suggest that, throughout life, gonadal hormones remain essential for maintaining aspects of sex-specific differences in the human brain.

PMID: 17074982

**Reenie** · Reporter Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 4085 Location: Glasgow

Hellfrozeover wrote:

What he doesn't know is that the weapons of mass destruction are actually in my knickers.

Will they find them, though? Wink

Stella Maru wrote:

Other aspects of the brain do appear to be influenced by hormones in trans folk...

No doubt. I've noticed some changes since I've been on HRT.

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**Hellfrozeover** · Advisor Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 797 Location: UK

They don't have search warrants Razz

!

I'm pretty worried about the idea of hormones making us more bitchy. I've heard of this happening alot and well I'm bad enough as it is Laughing

!

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Hellfrozeover be a pirate and a Transgenderzone moderator.

I don't stand under the TG umbrella anymore, it's way too bitchy and crowded in there but it's sunny out here Smile

Stella Maru · Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 2221 Location: Brighton

Evidence of a very small influence on brain structure is not the same as evidence of a change of personality.