tzone

**Reenie** · Reporter Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 3719 Location: Glasgow

Am I the only one who finds Squigglefish's English usage confusing and vague? (hence... wheedled around...)

Sorry, Squigglefish, would you be so kind as to make your point in clearer terms.

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Squigglefish · Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 218

Or you could use a dictionary.

I'll give you 'wheedled', it was an obscure usage (synonym of 'sweet talk', is very much the sort of action it sounds like), however the meaning of the sentence was still fairly clear without knowing the meaning.

However 'hence' is perfectly common and used regularly. It is used all the time in similar positions to "it follows that". Objecting to that and calling it 'confusing and vague' is simply laughable, I am afraid.

Given your stance on this thread, you have won no favours with me, and I am not about to reword my post repeatedly until I use a form of grammar that lets you pick holes which were not originally there.

**Reenie** · Reporter Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 3719 Location: Glasgow

I have a dictionary, thank you, and I know how to use it. I am quite familiar with the words "hence" and "to wheedle".

You construct your posts in a clumsy manner, the result of which is to confuse the message that you wish to convey to your audience.

I stand by my observation that your use of language is confusing and vague.

Squigglefish wrote:

...you have won no favours with me...

Whoopti-fucking-do.

Squigglefish wrote:

...and I am not about to reword my post repeatedly until I use a form of grammar that lets you pick holes which were not originally there.

What the hell is this supposed to mean? No, don't answer that... I've had enough gobbledegook for one morning... Sad

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Squigglefish · Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 218

*laughs*

Macdee · Joined: 09 Feb 2007 Posts: 136 Location: Scotland

It would be nice to live in a world where there is no discrimination whether you have sought medical intervention or not. Will trans people now have to carry a note from a doctor to prove their transness? (How ridiculous)

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BlackandPurple · Tzoner Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Posts: 870 Location: Australia

there is no law for anti-discrimination for the Australian Trans community at all.

be thankful that you guys are getting somwere with it.

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SignalFailure · Joined: 10 Aug 2007 Posts: 80 Location: Leeds

BlackandPurple wrote:

there is no law for anti-discrimination for the Australian Trans community at all.

be thankful that you guys are getting somwere with it.

I 100% agree with you. We are very lucky that our laws are evolving. The progressionist vision that Squigglefish is in favour of will, perhaps, once day become a reality. However, for that to happen an act such as the one under discussion needs to be celebrated so that the underlying principles behind it are diluted into our societies culture. Only then will we see the type of protection that is being proposed, or maybe, society may have evolved to a point where it is no long be an issue.

Maybe one day both men and women will all wear the same attire ... but then we would live in a transsexist society where individuals who wish to strongly identify as 'male' or 'female' are discriminated against. And so a new subgroup is born.

**Reenie** · Reporter Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 3719 Location: Glasgow

I generally skip the "Pseuds Corner" section of Private Eye.

*slips quietly out of thread and closes door gently behind her*

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CheekyCat · Joined: 20 Aug 2007 Posts: 484 Location: UK

BlackandPurple wrote:

there is no law for anti-discrimination for the Australian Trans community at all.

be thankful that you guys are getting somwere with it.

Actually, Australia has very progressive laws in relation to Anti-Discrimination for trans people and they have been on the statute book since 1977. Similarly the "Kevin" case in Australian law set many legal precedents that have been upheld by the courts, including the right to marry, and this case was extensively cited in the formation of current UK legislation.

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Squigglefish · Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 218

Interesting point, CheekyCat! Although I would be interested in more details on this subject from an Australian perspective, of course.

Regarding celebrating something that is incomplete, I'd like to quote Joss whedon on his writing of strong female characters (emphasis added my own):

Quote:

I believe that what I'm doing should not be remarked upon, let alone honored, and there are other people doing it. But seriously, this [questioning of why I write strong female characters] is ridiculous. And you've just got to stop.
...
Because—equality is not a concept. It's not something we should be striving for. It's a necessity. Equality is like gravity. We need it to stand on this earth as men and women. And the misogyny that is in every culture is not a true part of the human condition. It is life out of balance, and that imbalance is sucking something out of the soul of every man and woman who is confronted with it.

We definitely need to recognise progress being made, but this is not something that should be remarked upon as being special, and even a draft that I would fully support would not in my opinion need celebrating in and of itself.

Our improved situation, even from just the proposed bill, would be worthy of celebration. But equality should be now, and freedom from discrimination is a basic human right (article 14, ECHR). This is not something we should be thankful to be allowed - it should simply already be. We should not be grateful for what we get given, but rather relieved to not be denied the opposite any longer.

To say that a minority should applaud a majority for granting them rights is to bow to the majority privilege , to confirm the rightness of it.

(Of course, in saying all of this I am not blind to how real world power structures and systems work, and how one must act in public to ensure that majority support is obtained to allow one's rights to be recognised.)

BlackandPurple · Tzoner Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Posts: 870 Location: Australia

CheekyCat wrote:

BlackandPurple wrote:

there is no law for anti-discrimination for the Australian Trans community at all.

be thankful that you guys are getting somwere with it.

Actually, Australia has very progressive laws in relation to Anti-Discrimination for trans people and they have been on the statute book since 1977. Similarly the "Kevin" case in Australian law set many legal precedents that have been upheld by the courts, including the right to marry, and this case was extensively cited in the formation of current UK legislation.

Funny that never have seem to have been in public view, if that's so then why hasen't the Trans community ever heard of it?

unfortunantly for the "marriage" you still have to fight that kind of case in court and prove you had the SRS and have the birth cetificate and all the paperwork you need to be reconised as a married couple.

And if so then were still under a very narrow view from the goverment, which I don't understand with how or why were still being mocked for rights in australia which we are still under scrutiny with the laws that are still not allowing us to live properly and that our voices are not fully heard in public notice?

The trans community in Australia is still in the dark ages with having to go unoticed and even without having proper health care and awareness of how we are still being treated as second class citizens.

As in the UK their voices are getting louder and more noticed with how they are being treated in public yet Australians trans groups keep their mouths shut and hide all the time.

It very rare for a public attention from Australia to have some rights acheived yet we are still lagging further and further from how the gay community is achieving their rights.

I don't know if you've been to australia and experienced how hard it is here or not cheekycat but you infomation is lacking in digging deep into the laws of transgender rights for Australia.

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CheekyCat · Joined: 20 Aug 2007 Posts: 484 Location: UK

I'm sure the better informed sections of the Australian trans community will be well aware of the multitude of legislation relating to trans equality.

I'd suggest it is yourself who is "lacking in digging deep"

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Cheeky Cat!

BlackandPurple · Tzoner Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Posts: 870 Location: Australia

CheekyCat wrote:

I'm sure the better informed sections of the Australian trans community will be well aware of the multitude of legislation relating to trans equality.

I'd suggest it is yourself who is "lacking in digging deep"

I'm very well aware of the Australian Trans community cheeky and non of your information you have posted has been put out for them to be aware which I can garantee from how the system here works.

There has been no such public annoucement which the goverment will focus on such things that helps the trans community here.

so may I surggest you keep your opinons minimum to what is going on here in Australia, I'm not a bloody idiot thankyou!

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Misery is my company, why do I stand out from the rest of the people around me.

BlackandPurple · Tzoner Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Posts: 870 Location: Australia

I also like to say that in Tasmania there are anti-gay laws over there that make it very difficult for trans people to be in public view, and that gay marriage and trans marriage are still illegal!

So in my defence of such rubbish you thow on me about trans anti discrimination, the politicians will be laughing their balls off at you cheeky.

My house mate is a Transgender woman and she took her case of discrimination to the Melbourn high courts and lost because of lack of evidence and that the judge also was very judgmental of her appearence and the media have also humilated her in the herald sun news papers.

So even the courts can discriminate a Transgender client in public, so how dose this justify YOUR opinon cheeky to what gose on here huh?

got any more brilliant excuses to rub in my face?

So please stop telling me that I'm incapable of not knowing what is going on!

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Misery is my company, why do I stand out from the rest of the people around me.

CheekyCat · Joined: 20 Aug 2007 Posts: 484 Location: UK

http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/adb/ll_adb.nsf/pages/adb_transgender

http://www.ifge.org/Article217.phtml

Nuff said.

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Cheeky Cat!